Forrest Fenn’s Treasure – Finders Keepers, or Not? – Live Stream with Q&A

Shelley and Toby discuss the question of whether the finder of Fenn’s treasure will actually own it – or not.

Scholarly papers for download:

Click here to download Kleeberg’s paper on “Treasure Trove Law in the United States.”

Click here to download the Congressional Research Service’s paper on “Federal Land Ownership.”

Live Chat from Today’s Program

A Gypsy’s Kiss​Today’s program starts at 1pm MST.

Joel Lewicki​Good afternoon – welcome to the locus in quo!

Nikolai Strov​I smashed my phone on the ground yesterday.. I won’t be around as much :):

Paul McGinty​Good afternoon

Man In The Barn​Good Afternoon All

James Kruse​Hi guys

An Average Person​hey all

Peter Longan​hi

Jimmy Fast​Hi

Eric Schmidt​Good afternoon

Edward Owen​Hi Guys

Rick Plank​Hello from Cincinnati

Journeyman​Hi Guys


Jay Ell​top-o-the afternoon ya, boyo!

Aksarben​Hello from Omaha

clay spence​A Big Texas Happy Valentine’s back at you All!

Joey Pero​All men Shelly – I think you’ve found your audience !

Michael koen​Hello from NC

David Dow​Hello

Nikolai Strov​Joey isn’t even 21! 😉

Cindy Guess​Volume is low today

Crow Dudley​AGK.. hello from southern Indiana… You guys are awesome.

Eric Schmidt​Volume is good for me..

Cmonkeyification​Volume low on Shelley only

Aksarben​The person who has title owns it… Forrest has said that in his videos multiple times

Rick Plank​@AGK: I liked your desktop microphones much better.

Sandy Wolf​hello from West Virginia just want to say love your show

Joel Lewicki​for further research:…

Dan Kirk​AGK: If you find the treasure, will it be difficult do do this show and pretend like it wasn’t you who found it?

Bill Gorman​audio was fine now sounds like Toby is in a barrel. Somebody just has a cheep computer with poor sound

RedneckExpress​Toby is loud and clear – Shelly you mic is still low

Nikolai Strov​He was of clear mind when he decided to trove his treasure

Tl Mattes​Somebody is in the office working, unable to turn it up full blast, Bill. Don’t talk bad about my sister!

Road Runners​Wado from the Osage Reservation in Oklahoma.

Nikolai Strov​YES

Steve Gaghagen​hello from snowy Kearney Nebraska

Eric Schmidt​They have new mikes this week..

Aksarben​Possession is 90% of ownership 😄

Joey Pero​Haha 37 but thank you !

Nikolai Strov​Thats my age too 😃

Denise Bagley​Title to the “gold” not the bracelet or the bronze chest.” That may be how he’ll know someone has found it.

RedneckExpress​Title to the gold is Also part of a final clue – IMO

Nikolai Strov​I believe it is someplace that is accessible to the public, you can NOT go looking for treasure in a national PARK.. These rules/laws are different in national FORRESTs

Denise Bagley​Do tell… Redneck

Nikolai Strov​Also, with all this said, this should narrow the search area/s down significantly

Bill Gorman​Forrest service cop told me I could keep it, sheriff said I could keep it, state trooper said I can keep it

Joel Lewicki​Article referenced:…

Eric Schmidt​Bill – you preparing for your rebuttal?

Steve Gaghagen​isn’t national Park land public land set aside for us?

Nikolai Strov​Yes/no

RedneckExpress​DB: I believe Toby is accurate with the transfer of ownership verbiage, and also believe Numerous things in the poem mean 2 or even 3 different things.

Dale Richards​I had a BLM employee tell me that anything left on BLM land becomes subject to their rules of removal aft the 50 year mark.

B Cross​Greetings

Wade Kamps​This is why I rule out the treasure being placed on any reservation, then you also have to deal with another sovereign government

Cindy Guess​lol

RedneckExpress​Seriously doubt it’s on private or tribal land…

Michael koen​BLM land

Wade Kamps​Railroad bridges on reservation are all made of metal, they kept burning the wooden bridges and any freight that fell on tribal land became property of the tribe.

Nikolai Strov​Ladies, I hope your man’s spoil you with infinite sweet nothings, all the flowers in the world and more love, hugs and kisses than the eye can see.. Happy Valentimes! See you all next time ♥🙏

Eric Schmidt​Actually don’t blame the native americans for taking the tribal land so seriously as they have historical been taken advantage of

Steve Gaghagen​I agree Eric it’s one thing we didn’t take back

Road Runners​You’re so right Eric.

Eric Schmidt​I have read quite a bit about this – one of the toughest reads was Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.

Denise Bagley​That was? Or is ? I think that was a mistake , I hope.

john gould​The govt will always make the case. (Yo confiscate). What do they have to lose?

Steve Gaghagen​Little Big Man one of the best movies to show how we really treated the natives

Mary Green​@ Denise Bagley caught that too

David Ursiny​fenn is smart chances are that the box contains one gold coin and a paper ticket saying come get your treasure with his phone number

Michael koen​Fenn has said it’s not buried

Eric Schmidt​Michael – he hasn’t said whether it’s buried or not, “That’s a clue I don’t want to give”

amy smith​Hi! I’m late

fossilman123​hello from Phx

clay spence​I can’t get the live streaming up. any ideas?

Clayton Watson​Perpetually late, but finally here!!

11B 2P Treasure finder​Hi Shelley, hi Toby

Mary Green​@ clay spence clear your cookies

A J Rainville​@clay spence refresh browser?

clay spence​done and done. Thanks. will have to see it later. cell service must be bad here. tks.

B Cross

Franklin Eavers​I would speak with an attorney to see what the best place for me to find it would be.

Eric Schmidt​AGK: United AIrlines magazine is Hemispheres

JanKirb​hey fossilman i’m in phx too

Mary Green​@ clay paste url again

fossilman123​hi jan

clay spence​@ mary will do. tks

Bill Gorman​A road is not a trail

Franklin Eavers​Can law enforcement make you say where it was found? In that case I would have a story.

Steve Gaghagen​AGK you did a video awhile ago with a great Fenn timeline can you refer me to what the title to that video is?

Bill Gorman​Forrest cop told me I can keep it

Clayton Watson​By my calculation you have approx 100 days to adjust your search area, find the chest, and implement “your plan for when you find the treasure” before I get there…plus or minus a few snow days 😉

Kira​Bill, a cop isnt a lawyer, it wont hold up.

Michael koen​It won’t be foumd before June

JanKirb​is the Shelley campaign still on?

Laurie James​a boyfriend with a treasure chest please!

Dale Richards​AGK: so, do you think that “go in peace” means to not be confrontational at all, if approached by law enforcement or a government employee?

AJ 21​Agk What if you go public with the treasure what happen then?

amy smith​I wonder if there are mosquitoes close to the treasure?

Eric Schmidt​remove the space before the first “01”

Dan VonBank​watching in Minnesota

Denise Bagley​In the interview just played Forrest says that you need to report it…was that a National Park? I just missed where he said you’d have to report it. Even though it would still belong to the finder.

Clayton Watson​@AJ21 There exists the potential to make enough money doing publicity gigs and write books that you can keep the chest!

Adam Foddy

jaswinters​AGK So just to be clear is there any land out there legal to find the treasure chest without having any complications?

Bill Gorman​Sheriff said I can keep it, he just suggested carrying a gun for the 200 pound cats

Man In The Barn​AGK – When you auction off the chest would you be selling publishing rites to the autobiography and story or will you be keeping that?

Franklin Eavers​He doesn’t say you ‘need’ to, he says that’s the ‘legal’ thing to do. I wouldn’t tell anyone until it’s safely transported.

Adam Foddy​AGK: Has there been any cases of “treasure” being found with the finder losing out due to legal issues?

Joey Pero​Not yet

Steve Gaghagen​we say it carnie

amy smith​I think it’s because your mic is too low to why

Steve Hunt​If you aren’t the (anonymous) finder, would you say it’s not you?

Aksarben​Forrest says he has a feeling it will be found this summer. Do you feel the same or do you think it is to get people off the computer and out to the mountains

JanKirb​AGK Fenn seems so sure of no legality issues that do you think the chest contains a title document to the treasure that passes to the founder?

James Kruse​Might try moving the lapel mic higher up Tody

Peter Longan​should the finder document the location for legal reasons

Miter Broller​AGK. We all know what Clue #1 is, but interested in what Clue #9 is for you? Which line/sentence?

Bill Gorman​They don’t let me in the other Fenn Facebook groups, I know too much.

amy smith​I had one!

Dale Richards​AGK: I had a question above

Denise Bagley​Janno

Michael koen​besides the treasure the only thing I havn’t found is a car wreck in a ditch

Melinda Truscelli​How often do you go out and search? How many have you done so far?

Peter Longan​agk should the finder document the location for legal reasons

Aksarben​Michael were you in Kristin when you saw that wreck

Wade Kamps​Wonder if Forrest wanted to throw his bones on the treasure because Indian bones would trump Forrest Fenns title to his claim? sort of a poke at the govt..

Bill Gorman​I went to the Denver Museum last week, I wasn’t impressed with it.

Michael koen​I have found the rr, the cametary and fire circle

Dale Richards​AGK: some BLM areas have a 5 gallon bucket rule. Would removing a Treasure Trove be allowed with that rule in place?

Bill Gorman​Anubis and the Mammoth outside are the only clues at Denver Nature Useum.

James Kruse​That’s interesting

amy smith​AGK: do you think if there are mosquitoes where he hid the treasure?

Michael koen​yes

Melinda Truscelli​[message retracted]

Bill Gorman​As a camp host at a Forrest service campground, I know all the law enforcement for the area and they all told me I can keep it

James Kruse​Agk: would you open the chest or auction it sealed

Happy Valentines …..

Melinda Truscelli​AGK how many searches have you been on and how often do you go?

Bill Gorman​It will be one of his jars with the title to go claim it

Denise Bagley​I love your show! Thank you.

Dale Richards​Amy: I think Forrest said he accidentally left his sardine sandwich in the chest when he dumped his gold in it.

B Cross​AGK: Are you aware of any interview with Forrest conducted this year with author James Frey?

Eric Schmidt​B Cross – you been watching Cowlazars?

Peter Longan​agk when or did fenn say that the chest could be affected by natural desaters.

Laurie James​FYI. Toby, you really need to read House of Rain by Craig Child’s. It’s a wonderful book.

Road Runners​AGK – Off topic somewhat but can you tell me whether or not there are lignite deposits in or adjacent to Cimarron Canyon?

Mary Green​@ B Cross, u beat me to that Q

Denise Bagley​What if you tell people where you found it? Would they have to prove it? I can’t see what I am typing so forgive my mistakes.

Edward Owen​AGK did forrest say once that the Blaze cannot be seen from Google Earth?

Allie Blanche​agk do you have to report the $100,000 in cash that’s sitting in the chest?

David Dow​AGK: could you create an entity owned by a self directed Roth IRA, therefore when you find it, you don’t really own it, but your Roth IRA OWNS IT, then no taxes need to be paid?

JanKirb​AGK can we exclude NM owned public land and city owned pubic land or not?

Denise Bagley​Like couldn’t you tell people and they’d have to prove it? Whom ever finds it could say it was found somewhere whether it wasn’t found.

Bill Gorman​James Frey said my photos were “Amazing”

amy smith​AGK: do you know if FF’s father really took his own life and the details to finding his body?

Mary Green​@ David Dow, im going to ask a account friend about that

Man In The Barn​AGK – If someone else find the trove and you find out the location afterwards would you announce report on it?

Aksarben​Could you avoid legal issue by lending or just donating it to a museum for an extended/permanent time frame

Steve Gaghagen​thanks for the answers Toby and Shelley love the show great as always Happy Valentine’s day great to be back for a live stream

Jimmy Fast​[message retracted]

Franklin Eavers​Same question as Jimmy Fast.

Michael koen​5 gallon bucket rule is for petrified wood

Denise Bagley​AGK, we should have a secret party with all invested in the hunt.

Joey Pero​@AGK thoughts on the colors mentioned in Tea with Olga?

Bill Gorman​The trove is the Drawings, find the Art in Nature if you’re brave because you will be critisized for seeing Rockwell’s in rocks.

Bill Gorman​Frey loves the Mammoth Temples fits his fantasy style.

Dale Richards​ATK: Do you think Forrest or an affiliate of his has staked a claim where he hid the treasure? If so, entirely different set of rules.

David Ursiny​none of that legal stuff will count on federal property because all you will find at the bear canyon campfire is a box with one gold coin and a ticket saying call me to get your treasure, its a legal

Steve Gaghagen​AGK what are the 6 questions you’ve decided on?

Michael koen​there has been a landslide near where I am looking

Sandy Wolf​Michael get a metal detector

David Cline
If I ever found the treasure, I would split it with you guys for sure. Your dedication to this project is profound.

Bill Gorman​Fenn was asked if an earthquake would hide it and he acted as it could.

David Ursiny​its a legal thing for somebody getting hurt with a pile of gold forrest lawyers schooled him its hiss show

Eric Schmidt​AGK: he said you couldn’t zoom in enough to see the chest – I don’t think he said whether or not you could see the blaze

Peter Longan​thank you for that answer

Sandy Wolf​if treasure is on private land can you still claim it

Eric Schmidt​I thought that was on the Moby Dickens video..?

Dale Richards​ATK: I think he buried it in sand. He made mention of that in referring to a poem in his book. Do you think that digging in the sand does not create a surface disturbance?

Bill Gorman​AGK found in a state ROW?

Sandy Wolf​that’s why he said take it and leave it’s probably on private land

Joey Pero​ATK = only on Thursdays haha !

Sandy Wolf​how do we no that no one has found it cause of tax purposes he said he hasn’t been back to make sure it’s there

WorldFamous Gamer​is it possible to find out where Forrest’s properties?

Seannm Seannm​AGK & All: the key word may be trove, and the fact that he says “leave my trove for all to seek”. This line in the poem may cover the legalities of ownership. He spent a whole bunch of $ on lawyer

Edward Owen​Thank you eric

Dale Richards​AGK: So then, do you think I should do the right thing and put it back? 😉

Eric Schmidt​No problem! Glad to help

fossilman123​AGK, can you add this question to the list of FF Questions…..FF said he hid the treasure , Is it hidden out of view?

Michael koen​Later all, tks

Clayton Watson​AGK: Bill Gorman is referring to State Right-of-Way. I.e. bar ditches and such

James Kruse​Thanks guys, good show!

WorldFamous Gamer​God bless y’all have fun

Eric Schmidt​Thanks again Toby/Shelley

Laurie James​❤️

Tl Mattes​Good Job everyone! Thanks

Cindy Guess​Thank you, AGK!

Paul Ammons​Thanks💕

Joel Lewicki​TTYL

Paul McGinty​Thank you


Mary Green​thank you

Jay Ell​AGK: Other than being in his book, is the poem signed by FF to prove the poem is his for certain Forrest Fenn’s?

2 thoughts on “Forrest Fenn’s Treasure – Finders Keepers, or Not? – Live Stream with Q&A

  1. This is the most interesting subject connected with the treasure.
    My wife and I deal with law suits quite often as part of our work and your thought is perfect “I found it where FF left it”. WE are NOT lawyers, we do tons of contracts and contract enforcement.

    The finder who decides to keep the area secret will be interviewed by several bureaucrats from all the involved states. Further, bureaucrats from every federal agency connected with the treasury will most likely force the FBI to get involved along with the IRS who have laws against any lies and what their interpretation is or could be made to look “reasonably” like any miss representation. These agencies and entities have tactics and unlimited budgets to mess with anyone including entire families and associates. The fact is that someone WILL want to know where it was found. (Example being an FBI security check and not just the background checks.)

    My wife and I discussed this at length and we have decided that only I will be searching for the treasure Fenn lost. No children and no friends because “two can keep a secret if one of them is dead”.

    I’m not worried about you Toby, you have dealt with these people. I think being ready for the bureaucrats that are coming is important and giving the people the ability to make plans is just as important at any clue or hint discussion.


    • Steve…I worked, most of my life, for the intelligence community, and held, for most of that time a Top Secret, Crypto clearance. As a contractor I worked for all of them including the FBI and DEA, so I know of what they are capable. Our strategy includes remaining anonymous until we dispose of the treasure, and pay the taxes on the proceeds. I have been assured by our legal advisers that there is no law that would require me to reveal any more than, “where Fenn hid it.” That it was once in his possession, and that now it is in my possession is enough. I’m am aware that not everyone takes me seriously when I recommend they remain anonymous, and never reveal the location of their find. But, it is absolutely, the best possible outcome.

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