National Museum of Nuclear Science & History, Albuquerque, New Mexico

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For more information on the National Museum of Nuclear Science & History, click here:

Join Shelley Carney and Toby Younis as they share their visit to The National Museum of Nuclear Science and History in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Questions? Send a text to, or leave a voicemail at 866-597-9901 We’ll start the show with them and then take live calls.

Understanding Where Warm Waters Halt in New Mexico (Updated on June 22, 2018)

I have assumed that the Fenn’s treasure chest is hidden in New Mexico. I’ve explained why in an earlier entry. While that decision could be criticized, it cannot be debated. It’s my assumption, and I cling to it like a grizzly bear does to a chubby, tasty flatlander.

I have also assumed that “warm waters” as used in the first clue of Fenn’s Poem (Begin it where warm waters halt…) is Fenn’s gracious, poetic, and pretty damned transparent nod to the the New Mexico State Game and Fish Department Fishing Rules and Information pamphlet. He is, after all, a lifelong, devout and dedicated fisherman, and would be familiar with them.

When I first started searching for the treasure Forrest Fenn hid somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe, like everyone else, I used Google search to help me. At that time, when I searched “warm waters” the first entry on the results list was the reference to the phrase “warm waters” in the New Mexico Fishing Regulations. Perform the same search today, and you’ll get everything that has been written since. By anyone.

Since I’m about to jump into them, you can download a copy (in Adobe Acrobat) format of the 2018-2019 Fishing Proclamation (as the Rules are referred to) here. (I update this information annually.)

First, the phrase “warm waters,” (the plural) in the context of fishing, is unique to New Mexico. No other Rocky Mountain state uses the phrase in the context of fishing.

Second, while it is common knowledge that trout thrive in waters just either side of 55 degrees, there is nothing in anything the NMG&FD publishes that defines hot, warm, cool or cold waters in terms of temperatures in degrees Fahrenheit or Celsius. You will, on the other hand, find lists, with appropriate images, of warm water species and cold water species on the NMG&FD website without any reference to water temperatures.

CaptureaThird, you can find the definition of warm waters on page 16 of the above referred to publication. In the first paragraph it says, “Warm waters include all streams, lakes, and ponds, except those designated as trout waters (pages 24–25, 31).

Thus, the distinction, in the context of New Mexico fishing, is not between warm waters and cool waters, or warm water species and cool water species. It’s between warm waters and Trout Waters, irrespective of temperature or specie. (Special Trout Waters are a subset of Trout Waters, and reside within them._

The following has been edited (on June 22, 2018) to correct our understanding of warm waters in New Mexico.

That difference is documented in the map below. Click on the map to enlarge. A copy of this map is included in the annual New Mexico Fishing Rules and Info pamphlet. <===== You can download the current pamphlet with the link.

Simply put, warm waters in New Mexico are in the white areas of the map, and trout waters in the pink areas. Warm waters halt at the transition points between the two. For even more detail you can download this map:

New-Mexico-Public-Fishing-Waters-Map-Higher-Quality (1)


My Grandma Delgado’s Recipe for Bannock Bread


This bannock bread recipe is mostly for myself. I want to make certain I can remember it, and maybe, even share it with my children and grandchildren.

The Delgado side of my family were famous for their skills in the kitchen. My Aunt Lucy made a living as a cook (“I’m a cook, not a chef,” she’d tell people, “Chefs don’t cook New Mexican.”) My mother is at least partly responsible for my body shape. But, my Grandma Delgado? She was so good that she made everything in the kitchen look easy. She was an Espinoza by birth, from up Abiquiú way, and likely responsible for some of the Native American DNA in my blood. Which is why I trust this recipe for bannock bread.

One day, she got tired enough of me asking her to rustle up a batch of “banna-bread” that she showed me how to do it myself. This is the recipe I recall and have been using it at home and in the field ever since. The “at home” version is much easier, because I have the help of a Kitchen Aide mixer and an oven I can set to an exact temperature. But, with a little little extra effort and a watchful eye in the field, this recipe works just as well.

This should serve two big men at breakfast, or four, if you’re lunching in polite company.

Grandma’s Bannock Bread Recipe

Preheat your oven to 400 degrees Fahrenheit.


  • 2 cups of flour. You can use anything except self rising.  I prefer whole wheat.
  • 1 teaspoon of baking powder for each cup of flour.
  • 1/2 teaspoon of salt for each cup of flour.
  • 1 cup of lukewarm water. You’ll make your life easier if you add a Tablespoon of oil to the water. Unless it’s motor oil.

Pour the dry ingredients into a bowl, and stir them until you feel like they’re pretty well mixed. At this point, you can add anything you want. I’ve made it with a couple of shakes of Italian Seasoning, raisins, a little sugar and cinnamon, dried cranberries, diced fresh apple, and diced ham.

Stir the liquid in a little at a time. You’ll end up using almost all of it. If you over-wet it, just add a little more flour.

You’re looking to form what I call, “thingees that are trying to crawl up your spoon.”

At that point, scrape the spoon into the bowl, and use your hands. Form it into a ball, then put it back in the bowl and knead it for at least five minutes. Ten is even better.

Form it into a ball again, and let it sit in the bowl in a warm, dry place for about ten minutes.

As you can see in the photo above, I bake it on a cookie sheet with a layer of parchment paper. It won’t stick to the paper.

I bake it on the middle rack of my oven for 20 minutes. You may have to run a test or two for your oven. But, if you keep an eye on it, you should be fine. It’s ready when you can tap it with a finger, and the crust is hard, and it sounds kind of hollow.

Let it rest on a cooling rack for about ten minutes to finish the baking. Then, break off a piece, spread some butter or fresh strawberry jam on it, and enjoy.


If you’re out in the field, you can bake it in a dutch oven, or your own makeshift camp oven. Or, like many Native Americans, you can fry it in a pan with a little oil. Just remember to flip it when the bottom browns up.

If you’re looking for pure nutrition, this isn’t the recipe for you. Bannock is about calories from carbohydrates to keep you going when you’re out in the field. Make a batch the night before you leave for a recon trip, and it will keep you from getting “hangry” throughout the day.

For a different take on the search for the treasure Forrest Fenn hid somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe, please visit our YouTube Channel. Thank you.

“It’s in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe.” – Forrest Fenn, “The Thrill of the Chase,” 2010


We have often said that we take anything Fenn has said after December 31, 2012 as tactical offensive counterintelligence. Technically, that leaves us only the fundamentals with which to work: the contents of “The Thrill of the Chase,” and anything we learn about Fenn before that date.

In “The Thrill of the Chase,” referring to where he hid the treasure, Fenn writes:

“It’s in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe.”

Here’s a hypothetical for you to consider.

Let’s say your best friend in Santa Fe called to chat. You discuss a number of things, and one of them was that he was going camping, and doing a little trout fishing, the coming weekend.

When you ask him where he was going, he says, “In the mountains North of Santa Fe.” You tell him you wished you were going with him, and eventually, you end the call.

The following week, you receive a call from your best friend’s spouse. She tells you that he hadn’t yet returned from his weekend outing, and that emergency responders were about to begin a search for him.

She tells you she needs your help, then she asks whether or not he had mentioned to you where he was going camping.

You respond by saying, “He told me he was headed into the mountains somewhere North of Santa Fe.”

She thanks you, and before she ends the call, you hear her shout to the emergency responders who are about to depart, “Look for him in Colorado, Wyoming or Montana!”

Yeah. Crazy, huh?


Live Stream of Forrest Fenn on November 2nd From Collected Works

F O R  I M M E D I A T E  R E L E A S E
September 18, 2017 – Albuquerque, New Mexico

Shelley Carney and Toby Younis of A Gypsy’s Kiss announced today that they have agreed to live stream the launch and signing of Fenn’s new book, “Once Upon a While” on the evening of Thursday, November 2nd, 2017 from the Collected Works Bookstore in Santa Fe, New Mexico. New York Times best-selling author, Douglas Preston, who wrote the foreword to the book, will share the dais with Fenn.

Younis said, “We’re very pleased Forrest has given us the opportunity to share this special event with the world. This will be the fourth event we’ve streamed on his behalf.” Viewers can watch the stream live on Carney’s and Younis’ YouTube Channel ( A recording will also be made available after the event.

More details will follow as the event nears.

For any questions, please send an email to

Photo Album: 2017 Cimarron Recon

New Mexico State Police Chief Call’s Fenn’s Treasure Hunt “Stupid.”

We do not agree.

We do not believe a “treasure hunt” is capable of being stupid.

Each year, millions of Americans enjoy the outdoors. Some of them die in the process, and the majority of those that die, do so as a result of a set of bad decisions they made. It was not the fault of the kayak or the river, the 4WD vehicle or the rocky slope, the cliff or the rope, or the rattlesnake, the cougar or the brown bear.

We ended up having to stay the night, and spending most of it watching the rain flood our exit route.

The news that Wallace left a receipt in his car for the purchase of a rope later found at the scene indicates to us he was already in the middle of the chain of bad decisions that led to his death. The Orilla Verde, a place we’ve been to more than once, hosts thousands of individuals and families who camp, raft, kayak, fish, hike, take pictures, make paintings, and search for petroglyphs and other artifacts. They’re chasing their brand of the thrill. Evolutionarily-speaking, it is in our nature to do so. They come home safe, and sometimes tired and sunburned. Occasionally, one is lost to nature, and sometimes their own bravado. It is not nature’s fault. It is not the fault of their sport or avocation. Nature is, and all the activities above, are, incapable of being stupid.

If you have Fenn’s email address, we strongly recommend you to write and urge him not to call off the chase. Also, ask him not to change the conditions or terms of the chase. New clues be damned. 

In the meantime, when you go out to search, take Fenn’s advice: “Don’t go where an 80-year-old man couldn’t carry a 42 pound box.”

Our advice? From our experience in the outdoors for a variety of reasons and a variety of interests: Be prepared, don’t go alone, don’t be stupid.

Here’s the article from today’s Albuquerque Journal:

Albquerque Journal
By Edmundo Carrillo/Journal North
Published: Monday, June 19th, 2017 at 7:49pm
Updated: Monday, June 19th, 2017 at 11:01pm

SANTA FE — It appears that a second Colorado man has lost his life looking for Forrest Fenn’s treasure in New Mexico near the Rio Grande, spurring New Mexico’s State Police Chief Pete Kassetas to call the treasure hunt “stupid” and implore Fenn to finally call it off.

New Mexico State Police Chief Pete Kassetas

“I think it’s stupid,” Kassetas told the Journal on Monday. “If there is indeed a treasure out there, he should pull it. He has the moral obligation at this point to stop this insanity. He’s putting lives at risk.”

Fenn, a Santa Fe author and antiquities collector/dealer, published a poem in an autobiographical book in 2010 said to include clues on where to find the treasure. Interest in the treasure exploded when Fenn appeared on NBC’s “The Today Show” in 2013. The poem includes reference to “warm waters,” a creek and “water high.”

State Police Lt. Elizabeth Armijo said 52-year-old Paris Wallace of Grand Junction, Colo., last had contact with his family June 13 and was reported missing the next day. Wallace’s wife told officers that he went to New Mexico to look for Fenn’s treasure — a chest with over $1 million worth of gold coins, jewels and artifacts that Fenn says he hid somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.

Wallace’s car was found Thursday around 2:30 p.m. near the Taos Junction Bridge on N.M. 570 near Pilar, Armijo said. Sunday, State Police recovered a body in the Rio Grande about seven miles downstream. Authorities were still trying to positively identify the body Monday. But Armijo said “all evidence thus far indicates the deceased is Paris Wallace.”

Randy Bilyeu

In January 2016, another Colorado man, 54-year-old Randy Bilyeu of Broomfield, disappeared while searching for the treasure along the Rio Grande west of Santa Fe. His raft was found soon after, but the body wasn’t recovered until about six months later, in the river just north of Cochiti Lake.

State search and rescue crews, made up of about 1,000 volunteers, were involved in the searches in both cases. Kassetas voiced frustration Monday with having to take volunteers away from their day jobs to look for people who’ve gone on a treasure hunt that he said Fenn should put an end to. “Every time this happens, we send people out into the wilderness, taking valuable time and effort to find these individuals,” the chief said. “Those resources are better used elsewhere.” Kassetas said he plans on contacting Fenn personally to ask him to call off the hunt.

Fenn on Monday declined to answer emailed questions from the Journal about whether he should call off the treasure hunt, how many people should die or be injured before he calls it off or whether he plans on releasing more clues on the treasure’s whereabouts. “I don’t care to answer your questions, sir,” Fenn wrote.

Last year, he told the Journal, “As with deer hunters and fishermen, there is an inherent risk that comes with hiking the canyons and mountain trails. The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous spot, and I have said that no one should search in a place where an 80-year-old man could not hide it.”

Fenn did tell Westword, a Denver weekly, on Monday that his “heart is heavy” with the news of Wallace’s death. “I pray for his family, his friends and his congregation,” he said. He added, “Yes, there is always some risk in whatever you do, but millions of people successfully hike in the mountains each year.”

Sacha Johnston, a Fenn treasure enthusiast from Albuquerque who helped coordinate a volunteer search for Bilyeu last year, said Monday that Fenn should “absolutely not” call off the hunt. “People die driving to work everyday,” she said. “Should people stop driving? I think it’s a matter of care and proper planning. You should never go anywhere hiking alone. My deepest condolences to (Wallace’s) family. I hope they’re able to find peace.”

Linda Bilyeu, Randy Bilyeu’s ex-wife, has said that she believes the treasure is a hoax and reiterated Monday that the hunt should end. “I’ll be critical until this madness ends,” Bilyeu said. “Another family is left behind to grieve. This treasure hunt will forever haunt my daughters and grandchildren.”

Complete article here: