Shelley and Toby discuss the question of whether the finder of Fenn’s treasure will actually own it – or not.
Scholarly papers for download:
Click here to download Kleeberg’s paper on “Treasure Trove Law in the United States.”
Click here to download the Congressional Research Service’s paper on “Federal Land Ownership.”
Live Chat from Today’s Program
A Gypsy’s KissToday’s program starts at 1pm MST.
Joel LewickiGood afternoon – welcome to the locus in quo!
Nikolai StrovI smashed my phone on the ground yesterday.. I won’t be around as much :):
Paul McGintyGood afternoon
Man In The BarnGood Afternoon All
James KruseHi guys
An Average Personhey all
Eric SchmidtGood afternoon
Edward OwenHi Guys
Rick PlankHello from Cincinnati
Nikolai StrovHAPPY VALENTINES DAY!!
Jay Elltop-o-the afternoon ya, boyo!
AksarbenHello from Omaha
clay spenceA Big Texas Happy Valentine’s back at you All!
Joey PeroAll men Shelly – I think you’ve found your audience !
Michael koenHello from NC
Nikolai StrovJoey isn’t even 21! 😉
Cindy GuessVolume is low today
Crow DudleyAGK.. hello from southern Indiana… You guys are awesome.
Eric SchmidtVolume is good for me..
CmonkeyificationVolume low on Shelley only
AksarbenThe person who has title owns it… Forrest has said that in his videos multiple times
Rick Plank@AGK: I liked your desktop microphones much better.
Sandy Wolfhello from West Virginia just want to say love your show
Joel Lewickifor further research: https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/…
Dan KirkAGK: If you find the treasure, will it be difficult do do this show and pretend like it wasn’t you who found it?
Bill Gormanaudio was fine now sounds like Toby is in a barrel. Somebody just has a cheep computer with poor sound
RedneckExpressToby is loud and clear – Shelly you mic is still low
Nikolai StrovHe was of clear mind when he decided to trove his treasure
Tl MattesSomebody is in the office working, unable to turn it up full blast, Bill. Don’t talk bad about my sister!
Road RunnersWado from the Osage Reservation in Oklahoma.
Steve Gaghagenhello from snowy Kearney Nebraska
Eric SchmidtThey have new mikes this week..
AksarbenPossession is 90% of ownership 😄
Joey PeroHaha 37 but thank you !
Nikolai StrovThats my age too 😃
Denise BagleyTitle to the “gold” not the bracelet or the bronze chest.” That may be how he’ll know someone has found it.
RedneckExpressTitle to the gold is Also part of a final clue – IMO
Nikolai StrovI believe it is someplace that is accessible to the public, you can NOT go looking for treasure in a national PARK.. These rules/laws are different in national FORRESTs
Denise BagleyDo tell… Redneck
Nikolai StrovAlso, with all this said, this should narrow the search area/s down significantly
Bill GormanForrest service cop told me I could keep it, sheriff said I could keep it, state trooper said I can keep it
Joel LewickiArticle referenced: https://www.inc-cin.org/assets/pdf/ar…
Eric SchmidtBill – you preparing for your rebuttal?
Steve Gaghagenisn’t national Park land public land set aside for us?
RedneckExpressDB: I believe Toby is accurate with the transfer of ownership verbiage, and also believe Numerous things in the poem mean 2 or even 3 different things.
Dale RichardsI had a BLM employee tell me that anything left on BLM land becomes subject to their rules of removal aft the 50 year mark.
Wade KampsThis is why I rule out the treasure being placed on any reservation, then you also have to deal with another sovereign government
RedneckExpressSeriously doubt it’s on private or tribal land…
Michael koenBLM land
Wade KampsRailroad bridges on reservation are all made of metal, they kept burning the wooden bridges and any freight that fell on tribal land became property of the tribe.
Nikolai StrovLadies, I hope your man’s spoil you with infinite sweet nothings, all the flowers in the world and more love, hugs and kisses than the eye can see.. Happy Valentimes! See you all next time ♥🙏
Eric SchmidtActually don’t blame the native americans for taking the tribal land so seriously as they have historical been taken advantage of
Steve GaghagenI agree Eric it’s one thing we didn’t take back
Road RunnersYou’re so right Eric.
Eric SchmidtI have read quite a bit about this – one of the toughest reads was Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.
Denise BagleyThat was? Or is ? I think that was a mistake , I hope.
john gouldThe govt will always make the case. (Yo confiscate). What do they have to lose?
Steve GaghagenLittle Big Man one of the best movies to show how we really treated the natives
Mary Green@ Denise Bagley caught that too
David Ursinyfenn is smart chances are that the box contains one gold coin and a paper ticket saying come get your treasure with his phone number
Michael koenFenn has said it’s not buried
Eric SchmidtMichael – he hasn’t said whether it’s buried or not, “That’s a clue I don’t want to give”
amy smithHi! I’m late
fossilman123hello from Phx
clay spenceI can’t get the live streaming up. any ideas?
Clayton WatsonPerpetually late, but finally here!!
11B 2P Treasure finderHi Shelley, hi Toby
Mary Green@ clay spence clear your cookies
A J Rainville@clay spence refresh browser?
clay spencedone and done. Thanks. will have to see it later. cell service must be bad here. tks.
Franklin EaversI would speak with an attorney to see what the best place for me to find it would be.
Eric SchmidtAGK: United AIrlines magazine is Hemispheres
JanKirbhey fossilman i’m in phx too
Mary Green@ clay paste url again
clay spence@ mary will do. tks
Bill GormanA road is not a trail
Franklin EaversCan law enforcement make you say where it was found? In that case I would have a story.
Steve GaghagenAGK you did a video awhile ago with a great Fenn timeline can you refer me to what the title to that video is?
Bill GormanForrest cop told me I can keep it
Clayton WatsonBy my calculation you have approx 100 days to adjust your search area, find the chest, and implement “your plan for when you find the treasure” before I get there…plus or minus a few snow days 😉
KiraBill, a cop isnt a lawyer, it wont hold up.
Michael koenIt won’t be foumd before June
JanKirbis the Shelley campaign still on?
Laurie Jamesa boyfriend with a treasure chest please!
Dale RichardsAGK: so, do you think that “go in peace” means to not be confrontational at all, if approached by law enforcement or a government employee?
AJ 21Agk What if you go public with the treasure what happen then?
amy smithI wonder if there are mosquitoes close to the treasure?
Eric Schmidtremove the space before the first “01”
Dan VonBankwatching in Minnesota
Denise BagleyIn the interview just played Forrest says that you need to report it…was that a National Park? I just missed where he said you’d have to report it. Even though it would still belong to the finder.
Clayton Watson@AJ21 There exists the potential to make enough money doing publicity gigs and write books that you can keep the chest!
jaswintersAGK So just to be clear is there any land out there legal to find the treasure chest without having any complications?
Bill GormanSheriff said I can keep it, he just suggested carrying a gun for the 200 pound cats
Man In The BarnAGK – When you auction off the chest would you be selling publishing rites to the autobiography and story or will you be keeping that?
Franklin EaversHe doesn’t say you ‘need’ to, he says that’s the ‘legal’ thing to do. I wouldn’t tell anyone until it’s safely transported.
Adam FoddyAGK: Has there been any cases of “treasure” being found with the finder losing out due to legal issues?
Joey PeroNot yet
Steve Gaghagenwe say it carnie
amy smithI think it’s because your mic is too low to why
Steve HuntIf you aren’t the (anonymous) finder, would you say it’s not you?
AksarbenForrest says he has a feeling it will be found this summer. Do you feel the same or do you think it is to get people off the computer and out to the mountains
JanKirbAGK Fenn seems so sure of no legality issues that do you think the chest contains a title document to the treasure that passes to the founder?
James KruseMight try moving the lapel mic higher up Tody
Peter Longanshould the finder document the location for legal reasons
Miter BrollerAGK. We all know what Clue #1 is, but interested in what Clue #9 is for you? Which line/sentence?
Bill GormanThey don’t let me in the other Fenn Facebook groups, I know too much.
amy smithI had one!
Dale RichardsAGK: I had a question above
Michael koenbesides the treasure the only thing I havn’t found is a car wreck in a ditch
Melinda TruscelliHow often do you go out and search? How many have you done so far?
Peter Longanagk should the finder document the location for legal reasons
AksarbenMichael were you in Kristin when you saw that wreck
Wade KampsWonder if Forrest wanted to throw his bones on the treasure because Indian bones would trump Forrest Fenns title to his claim? sort of a poke at the govt..
Bill GormanI went to the Denver Museum last week, I wasn’t impressed with it.
Michael koenI have found the rr, the cametary and fire circle
Dale RichardsAGK: some BLM areas have a 5 gallon bucket rule. Would removing a Treasure Trove be allowed with that rule in place?
Bill GormanAnubis and the Mammoth outside are the only clues at Denver Nature Useum.
James KruseThat’s interesting
amy smithAGK: do you think if there are mosquitoes where he hid the treasure?
Melinda Truscelli[message retracted]
Bill GormanAs a camp host at a Forrest service campground, I know all the law enforcement for the area and they all told me I can keep it
James KruseAgk: would you open the chest or auction it sealed
Happy Valentines …..
Melinda TruscelliAGK how many searches have you been on and how often do you go?
Bill GormanIt will be one of his jars with the title to go claim it
Denise BagleyI love your show! Thank you.
Dale RichardsAmy: I think Forrest said he accidentally left his sardine sandwich in the chest when he dumped his gold in it.
B CrossAGK: Are you aware of any interview with Forrest conducted this year with author James Frey?
Eric SchmidtB Cross – you been watching Cowlazars?
Peter Longanagk when or did fenn say that the chest could be affected by natural desaters.
Laurie JamesFYI. Toby, you really need to read House of Rain by Craig Child’s. It’s a wonderful book.
Road RunnersAGK – Off topic somewhat but can you tell me whether or not there are lignite deposits in or adjacent to Cimarron Canyon?
Mary Green@ B Cross, u beat me to that Q
Denise BagleyWhat if you tell people where you found it? Would they have to prove it? I can’t see what I am typing so forgive my mistakes.
Edward OwenAGK did forrest say once that the Blaze cannot be seen from Google Earth?
Allie Blancheagk do you have to report the $100,000 in cash that’s sitting in the chest?
David DowAGK: could you create an entity owned by a self directed Roth IRA, therefore when you find it, you don’t really own it, but your Roth IRA OWNS IT, then no taxes need to be paid?
JanKirbAGK can we exclude NM owned public land and city owned pubic land or not?
Denise BagleyLike couldn’t you tell people and they’d have to prove it? Whom ever finds it could say it was found somewhere whether it wasn’t found.
Bill GormanJames Frey said my photos were “Amazing”
amy smithAGK: do you know if FF’s father really took his own life and the details to finding his body?
Mary Green@ David Dow, im going to ask a account friend about that
Man In The BarnAGK – If someone else find the trove and you find out the location afterwards would you announce report on it?
AksarbenCould you avoid legal issue by lending or just donating it to a museum for an extended/permanent time frame
Steve Gaghagenthanks for the answers Toby and Shelley love the show great as always Happy Valentine’s day great to be back for a live stream
Jimmy Fast[message retracted]
Franklin EaversSame question as Jimmy Fast.
Michael koen5 gallon bucket rule is for petrified wood
Denise BagleyAGK, we should have a secret party with all invested in the hunt.
Joey Pero@AGK thoughts on the colors mentioned in Tea with Olga?
Bill GormanThe trove is the Drawings, find the Art in Nature if you’re brave because you will be critisized for seeing Rockwell’s in rocks.
Bill GormanFrey loves the Mammoth Temples fits his fantasy style.
Dale RichardsATK: Do you think Forrest or an affiliate of his has staked a claim where he hid the treasure? If so, entirely different set of rules.
David Ursinynone of that legal stuff will count on federal property because all you will find at the bear canyon campfire is a box with one gold coin and a ticket saying call me to get your treasure, its a legal
Steve GaghagenAGK what are the 6 questions you’ve decided on?
Michael koenthere has been a landslide near where I am looking
Sandy WolfMichael get a metal detector
If I ever found the treasure, I would split it with you guys for sure. Your dedication to this project is profound.
Bill GormanFenn was asked if an earthquake would hide it and he acted as it could.
David Ursinyits a legal thing for somebody getting hurt with a pile of gold forrest lawyers schooled him its hiss show
Eric SchmidtAGK: he said you couldn’t zoom in enough to see the chest – I don’t think he said whether or not you could see the blaze
Peter Longanthank you for that answer
Sandy Wolfif treasure is on private land can you still claim it
Eric SchmidtI thought that was on the Moby Dickens video..?
Dale RichardsATK: I think he buried it in sand. He made mention of that in referring to a poem in his book. Do you think that digging in the sand does not create a surface disturbance?
Bill GormanAGK found in a state ROW?
Sandy Wolfthat’s why he said take it and leave it’s probably on private land
Joey PeroATK = only on Thursdays haha !
Sandy Wolfhow do we no that no one has found it cause of tax purposes he said he hasn’t been back to make sure it’s there
WorldFamous Gameris it possible to find out where Forrest’s properties?
Seannm SeannmAGK & All: the key word may be trove, and the fact that he says “leave my trove for all to seek”. This line in the poem may cover the legalities of ownership. He spent a whole bunch of $ on lawyer
Edward OwenThank you eric
Dale RichardsAGK: So then, do you think I should do the right thing and put it back? 😉
Eric SchmidtNo problem! Glad to help
fossilman123AGK, can you add this question to the list of FF Questions…..FF said he hid the treasure , Is it hidden out of view?
Michael koenLater all, tks
Clayton WatsonAGK: Bill Gorman is referring to State Right-of-Way. I.e. bar ditches and such
James KruseThanks guys, good show!
WorldFamous GamerGod bless y’all have fun
Eric SchmidtThanks again Toby/Shelley
Tl MattesGood Job everyone! Thanks
Cindy GuessThank you, AGK!
Paul McGintyThank you
Mary Greenthank you
Jay EllAGK: Other than being in his book, is the poem signed by FF to prove the poem is his for certain Forrest Fenn’s?